Phil Discussions
Hosting Fees
Jerry notes that:
- Phil helped in paying initial PBWiki hosting fees (1 year Silver level) with http://www.NAMI-PW.org
- even Jerry's cabfare receipt reimbursement from last month hasn't been paid by Pathways as fiscal agent
- we are further into getting money flowing, but there seems to be a dam in getting it flowing toward Interactive Website
Additional hosting features needed:
- We need to add traffic and statistics to get usage information for State Utilization reporting.
- Traffic & Statistics is about $40 one time fee for the life of this PBWiki.
- Other features needed include Lockable Pages, as Diane has asserted in a meeting that we couldn't use a wiki without it, perhaps not having tried the wiki, nor asked if that was possible. It is only a PBWiki feature we haven't paid for...
RRWG Process:
- No fiscal procedures even 6+ months after the start of funding
- No explicit group ratification process for getting subgroups project funding though the RRWG, RRWGExecComm, Steering Committee
- No process for changing the Proposal with the State (e.g. for Interactive Website splitting up part time position into web/wiki administration like a fiscal agent fee but at a higher tech rate and paying contributors/ authors especially consumers to encourage partiticipation)
State Utilization:
Core Services is not a sufficient reason for denying
Interactive Website funding, as Telehealth, New Freedom commission reports, and other initiatives Plus approval by the State already indicate an
Interactive Website at that funding level was approved for funding, so what's the holdup?
Core Services 7 gets revised and including tech is the industry trend...
Doug adds that:
- PBWiki.Com must have issued some receipt for existing upgrades. The receipt may be presented to the Finance Chairs. Sylisa is designing the form for Finance to sign off on payments.
- Future upgrades are at a rate known only to the wiki Admin. Can system level pages be shared by pasting? Over at epat.pbwiki.com all upgrades are a monthly committment AFA Doug understands the PBWiki system.
- For the RRWG meeting coming soon, a handout of upgrade status and options is needed. A summary of group meetings and The Will of the Group should be available then also. Sharon usually duplicates any needed handouts.
- Doug, Phil, and Teri enjoyed some time together in December, if memory serves, and wonders if Phil, Jerry, and Doug might meet before the RRWG meeting coming soon, perhaps on the Sunday morning prior and either kill or use a few brains cells relevant to the situation.
- State Utilization Reporting conforms to CST7: Core Services Taxonomy 7, and Judy Carter has let Doug know this document does not count web-hits as a deliverable, and thus reportable service. Doug has repeatedly requested starting 2006-01-15 blank electronic Utilization reporting forms from Jim Thur and Cathy Pumphrey and has let the matter drop with no replies to date 2007-01-29. Doug has received an electronic filled in version of such a report, the one Jim claims the Commonwealth is critical of, and wonders when we'll get to participate in outcome measurement.
Jerry Responds to Doug's numbered items above:
1. Phil probably has that receipt, but I believe it may have been a donation from NAMI-PW. Jerry's $20 cash donation to try PBWiki, did not receive a receipt, but there was a witness. Not sure what the retroactive reimbursement process is, as there are no fiscal procedures yet that I know of....
2. This page lists some of the fees, also available on the pbwiki.com site. Monthly and/or yearly payments are options.
3. Large Group meeting? Is this request as Secretary, as Lead Contact, I've not heard... I've been writing/editing/contributing and administering ad nausium, so if you'd like to throw something together, perhaps on here, with my editing, I'll consider that... Perhaps as an observer, you are hearing things in the group, that as Target I'm not, for example Meaning of the The Will of the Group, may be scapegoating, as the quote was in reference to Jerry applying for the RRWG Coordinator position (Phil, you missed that fun ;-) )
Venue needs copier, internet, open access, wheelchair accessibility, food nearby, parking, bike lockers, quick transportation and many other things to be conducive to recovery and productive meetings...
4. I wasn't invited. With transportation and quick turn around time, I don't know if I can and I need all my brain cells intact... 
5. I've discussed Core Services elsewhere on this page.
Since resigning as a CoTreasurer, are you still on the Interactive Website team?
Jerry has not known to include you since he hasn't seen you at meetings for months before recently...
Phil to Jerry et al.
In August 2006 and for much of the remainder of 2006, I was pretty much the sole caregiver in my family and had to suspend or remove myself from a number of personal activities, e.g., resigning from the RRWG co-Finance position and not being able to make many subsequent, day-time, RRWG meetings in Falls Church. While I never formally dropped out of Subgroup VII, my participation was, at best, on the warm side of 0, from August onward.
Things have now changed (for the better), and I can hopefully resume some level of participation in RRWG efforts. Whether it makes sense for me to remain a part of SG VII is open for discussion. I personally have enjoyed getting an understanding of wiki website technology and its use.
OPINION: I get the feeling that the RRWG members and others may (also) enjoy a more elementary and slightly less structured method of sharing information, e.g., like a Yahoo Groups facility ... integrating easy 'e-mail' and 'directory' facilities with a mini-blog-like and 'subject-based' concatenated posting capabilities. While a wiki website can provide much of those capabilities, it seems to me (IMHO) that the interactive wiki world is just a slight bit more 'formally' useful. For example, the frequent 'brainstorming' and more 'conversational' activities might be more suitable for a less-formal, more-free-form 'Yahoo Group' type facility, with resultant, rolled-up information added to a related wiki website -- the latter activity performed by a fewer number of 'updaters' ... e.g., sub-group chairfolks or their appointees? Just an opinion. Also, when I say "Yahoo Group," I'm just using them as a named example (like "Kleenex" for facial tissues); it's neither an endorsement nor a recommendation for Yahoo's specific offering.
I envision the above two facilities as complementary rather than mutually exclusive.
If this is still an area open for discussion, let's do so.
Jerry to Phil et al aka some Web Catchup /Status
To catch you up some since August, there have been mumblings about email / discussion board, but nothing formal. Most people, even in the RRWG have not tried the wiki, and it foretells a real problem of people not changing mindset of the traditional, someone is going to do it for you, can't do anything different than we've always done, then wonder why no different results, instead of consumer directed, inititive and footwork ;-} necessary for individual change and recovery...
Doug's attempts
Doug tried creating splinter projects for RRWGExecComm (presumably under the Secretary hat) and now http://EPAT.pbwiki.com (presumably under the Assistive Tech hat), with recent postings of emails on discussion boards.
Email
Email is relatively low tech for users, as many are used to it already. Homeless and people behind firewalls, etc may not be able to access it remotely. It is also to easy to flood the system with junk. Not that a pbwiki would be immune to 'Signal to Noise' problems but one doesn't normally go back over emails to revise, improve and collaborate. Other issues include the new members, and even occassional members.
In the months of RRWG activity, keeping up with emails has been difficult to summarize status of each of the subgroups on the wiki. A template is being developed of what information is required of each subgroup similar to below...
ProposalText, SubgroupStatus, SubgroupDiscussion, PageHistory, PageStatistics
Discussion Board Software
Yahoogroups are well known to some of the consumers locally. But it is a huge target of spammers, email address pirates, etc and a pain to administer. Part of writing the Interactive Website proposal was to get away from those issues and provide hosting to the consumer projects starting without a huge burden of traditional updating, webmastering, hence the wiki with community process and multiple contributors...
Groups.Google is better, imho, but still a usenet like public forum, when we have existing funding to get hosting in the Proposal, but the financial process is not worked out and the looming July funding cycle deadline is rapidly approaching. Other larger projects in the $400k range have take precedence to get the largest money committed, leaving smaller projects (website first) and possibly Assistive Tech as red haired step children ;-}
There was a flurry of emails about website around the RecoveryApplication ideas of creating a WebApp to submit forms, which might still be possible, but would likely require the traditional hosting for cgi capability with associated fees (low end in the hundreds of $$$, feel free to use your NAMI-PW.org as a costing example, but I'd like to see it first).
Traditional Hosting necessary & complementary
Commercial hosting STILL MAKES SENSE and is the next logical step, but we run into the money issues again, like for pbwiki hosting fees. Specific complaints of not being able to lock pages is solvable with money, and since projects which just started in Jan 2007 are getting money, I'm beyond resentful after 6 months...
Other issues include the pandura's box of email, SPAM and security. If a RecoveryApplication WebApp were created how much personal information would be collected (possibly separable with a cover sheet?, blind reviewing of applications, fluid process issues, etc), not appropriate for public posting, email (which is inherently insecure unless encrypted, but most people don't even with HIPPA, but we are not doing case level PHI information...)
Workarounds
Some workarounds might be possible, like considering templates plus the new Point-and-Click editor for better formatting of the application...
Default process
Otherwise, we are left with a paper only process and no electronic record of the applications, huge post processing tasks that could be preprocessed by applicants... Many people might do the applications on computer with a wordprocessor anyway and putting up a form would segment the data better. To do this, the form and process needs to be stable enough too... And paper backup, just in case. Signatures might require some of that anyway.
Votes/ Actions
Get traditional hosting in addition to pbwiki
Fork over ala carte $40 to pbwii for traffic statistics
Consider conversion to mediawiki before getting to entrenched with pbwiki special features
Discover the financial processes in RRWG, as nothing is explicit and formal about how a subgroup gets funding (hosting costs relatively small compared to labor) much less consumers reimbursed for 'participation'
What documentation is being requested from the last large RRWG meeting.
i.e. no specifics provided, no template proposal/bill, and pricing something so fluid is impractical
Seriously consider converting some of the Interactive Website part time position $$$ to pay for contributor work by many authors
Buy projector(s) and price out a wishlist of consumer requested hardware
Printer, RRWG office setup, n times internet software packages to connect those without ISPs,
buy some laptops, survey what hardware/ software is needed in consumer orgs, not covered in the RecoveryApplications coming in
Determine 'CommitteeOfTheWhole' definitions and local interpretations
PBWiki has been open to all since the beginning but it has not been a level workload, and participation has been low, referenced above
Determine next Interactive Website meeting, possibly online trying the HIGHLY EXPERIMENTAL Chat, but check logging for transcript first?
Any of those anyone is particularly interested in contributing to the work?
Membership(s)--RRWG
Doug
As Secretary, Doug took Phil's request to remain informed of RRWG activities and remain listed as a member, and remains aware of the RRWG's lack of membership criteria. Wendy has suggested a subcommittee to establish such. Doug has a summary of RRWG notes in 2006 compiled-, and is working to extract attendance. Doug will summarize attendance in a chart for Wendy's proposed membership subcommittee.
Privacy/Publicity (Lockable Pages, ownership, etc.)-
Doug
This site straddles that critical fence separating access, control, and accountability. Doug suggests the RRWG discuss this on new page PrivacyPublicity. See epat.pbwiki.com/AcceptableUsePolicy for an example and summary.
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20070129 Jerry
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